Since Sapphire are happy to prescribe non-irradiated Isando flower, I thought I'd check how microbiology counts compared with Grow flowers.
I've just checked the Isando CoAs that are made available on the Medcan website. It looks like the microbiology counts exceed those of the EU Pharmacopoeia guidelines for inhaled herbal products - the same guidelines that Sapphire point at to explain why they won't prescribe Grow products.
EU Pharmacopoeia guidelines (section 5.1.4) say that maximum limits for inhaled products are:
TAMC: 200 CFU/g TYMC: 20 CFU/g
For reference: TAMC = Total Aerobic Mould Count TYMC = Total Yeast & Mould Count
And here are the figures from the Isando and Grow CoAs, all of which are for non-irradiated strains:
​
||TAMC (CFU/g)|TYMC (CFU/g)|
|:-|:-|:-|
|**Isando 22**|100|50|
|**Isando 16**|5,260|770|
|**Grow Gelato T18**|250,000|170,000|
|**Grow LA Sage T22**|1,000|1,000|
|**Grow Strawberry Glue T22**|1,700|2,600|
|**Grow Herijuana T16**|3,500,000|478,000|
|**Grow Herijuana T18**|3,500,000|78,000|
​
[Chart showing count - note the scale is logarithmic](https://preview.redd.it/nbnldr2no0991.png?width=688&format=png&auto=webp&s=3ffc3127abdd1dc797d4288ba7138c26e1c5a5a5)
So, am I doing something wrong here, or is this the "smoking gun" that shows Sapphire are refusing to prescribe Grow for commercial reasons, in breach of GMC guidelines?
And here's a separate table with Adven strains, pre and post-irradiation - unsurprisingly, irradiation basically sterilises the flower (though what I don't understand is how we've seen full-on visible mould a few times, despite irradiation):
||TAMC Pre-Irradation|TAMC Post-Irradation|TAMC Pre-Irradiation|TYMC Post-Irradiation|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|**Adven EMT1**|20,000|<10|9,000|<10|
|**Adven EMT3**|80,000|<10|30,000|<10|
EDIT 1: Update with Grow figures
EDIT 2: Update with Adven post-irradiation figures
EDIT 3: Update with Adven pre and post-irradiation figures
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15 comments
skyred
- 4y
Rep: 5054 Lvl: Gold
You're spot on, I've been trying to get hold of a professional to confirm. I can send you grow CoAs, drop me a dm
14
Richvew
- 4y
Rep: 5749 Lvl: Gold
Here is the Isando 22 CoA (which even shows the terpene profile!):
https://online.fliphtml5.com/aqbil/tkoo/#p=7
And the Isando 16 CoA:
https://online.fliphtml5.com/aqbil/yicn/#p=12
7
Larryhob
- 4y
Rep: 3952 Lvl: Gold
Thank you for this info. I’m transferring even if they now decide “it’s safe” out of principle.
5
Larryhob
- 4y
Rep: 3952 Lvl: Gold
Grows CoAs reference Ph. Eur. 5.1.8., for general Microbiological quality and A Ph. Eur. 2.6.12 specifically for TAMC and TYMC. That would make the limits;
TAMC <10⁷ CFU/g
TYMC <10⁵ CDU/g
I've not run all the numbers properly to compare but the Strawbery Glue def beats Islando 16's TAMC number hands down and the La Sage is 1.0x10³ in both TAMC and TYMC.
The grow CoAs are about in public but not sure if they're meant to be or not (dunno if leaked or officially released by Grow - the last statement I read only said they were on the doctors portal)
4
Ellisahen
- 4y
Rep: 5783 Lvl: Gold
Would you be able to add the counts for the Adven range from the COAs here as well:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukmedicalcannabis/comments/usevkd/adven_strain_names_emt_123/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
From what I have worked out, the Adven microbiology count is rather shocking
3
Andy1010101010
- 3y
Rep: 5336 Lvl: Gold
I'm just revisiting this now due to my budrot hellfire but i can't get my head round the numbers...from these charts isn't the herijuana 16 way off the charts in terms of mould? Isn't it over the Eu limits?
I'm really sensitive to mould, asthmatic, trying to figure out if I should get rid of the rest of the herijuana as I think it's affecting me.
How can a Total Aerobic Air Count of 3,500 000 be safe?? Its astronomical compared to irradiated which I think I may need to stick with from now on.
Can anyone help me interpret the numbers? I get lost at something to the power of something.
2
Janas
- 4y
Rep: 3862 Lvl: Gold
Would be nice if MHRA/local importers had a portal with these so we could compare, the products shipped here might be different.
2
AnnaSak
- 4y
Rep: 4171 Lvl: Gold
Just been prescribed herijuana 18, is it safe? I’m no expert so would appreciate a reply ! :)
1
CharlesHob
- 4y
Rep: 3613 Lvl: Gold
Fotmer Purple Dog Bud CoA is available on this site. Basically it says they couldn't detect any growth at all
https://fotmer.com/es/purpledogbud/
1
JonEmalo
- 4y
Rep: 4834 Lvl: Gold
Basically, whilst the Isando figures arent good, the three Grow products are absolutely shocking. I defo dont want that shit near me.
However the two T22s look ok, copared to Isando. Be good to see the Adven figures.
But several million compared to 100 looks like a reasonable call from sapphire and TMCC (or was it zerenia?
The Markus Veit paper looks interesting though, i havent read it in detail yet, but i thought spores survived the vape temps.
1
Bruno
- 4y
Rep: 6255 Lvl: Gold
[removed]
1
KevinBop
- 4y
Rep: 3739 Lvl: Gold
Compare the Islando 22 with the Grow products 😮
This line from the MCCS stating that most microbes will be destroyed in heat, suggests I can bake mouldy bread in the oven at 180c and breath in the contents or I can cook mouldy bread into toast and eat it.
Personally, I don’t want to have another medical condition on top of what I already have because of the high TYMC, but at the same time it would be good to gain a greater understanding to compare this data with some bm and different forms of radiated cannabis?
vote
Mupps
- 4y
Rep: 3786 Lvl: Gold
Oh lawwwwdddd now I’m interested 👀 the grow stuff looks great but I would rather protect my health. Now I see these figures I’m confused, curious and hungry lol
vote
Mashpal
- 4y
Rep: 4361 Lvl: Gold
[deleted]
vote
GruzT
- 4y
Rep: 3926 Lvl: Gold
Ähm and…i don‘t know how to bring it to
you…
But you‘re not part of the eu anymore^^
-1